Legislature(2011 - 2012)CAPITOL 106

03/13/2012 03:00 PM House HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES


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Audio Topic
03:07:40 PM Start
03:08:17 PM Presentation: State Funding for Pregnancy Termination
04:49:50 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: State Funding for Pregnancy TELECONFERENCED
Termination by Representatives from Dept. of
Health & Social Services & other Representatives
from the State
-- Public Testimony --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
      HOUSE HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                     
                         March 13, 2012                                                                                         
                           3:07 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Wes Keller, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Alan Dick, Vice Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bob Herron                                                                                                       
Representative Bob Miller                                                                                                       
Representative Charisse Millett                                                                                                 
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION:  STATE FUNDING FOR PREGNANCY TERMINATION                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM STREUR, Commissioner                                                                                                    
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS)                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the presentation on state                                                               
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the presentation on state                                                               
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
KAREN LEWIS, Educational Director                                                                                               
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CANDY MILLER                                                                                                                    
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DEBBIE JOSLIN, President                                                                                                        
Eagle Forum Alaska                                                                                                              
Delta Junction, Alaska                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CLOVER SIMON                                                                                                                    
Planned Parenthood of the Great Northwest                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ILONA FARR, MD                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARGARET MULLINS                                                                                                                
Delta Junction, Alaska                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTINE KURKA, Chair                                                                                                          
Fair Committee                                                                                                                  
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
40 Days For Life                                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MIKE DUNLEAVY                                                                                                                   
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER MEYER                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MIRIAM LANDAU                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MATT JOHNSON, Executive Director                                                                                                
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTOPHER KURKA, Chair                                                                                                        
Political Committee                                                                                                             
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified during the  presentation on state                                                             
funding for pregnancy termination.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:07:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WES KELLER  called the  House Health  and Social  Services                                                             
Standing   Committee    meeting   to    order   at    3:07   p.m.                                                               
Representatives Keller,  Dick, Herron,  Miller, and  Millett were                                                               
present at the  call to order.  Representative  Seaton arrived as                                                               
the meeting  was in  progress.  Also  in attendance  were Senator                                                               
Dyson and Representative Lynn.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
^Presentation:  State Funding for Pregnancy Termination                                                                       
     Presentation:  State Funding for Pregnancy Termination                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:08:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
a  presentation about  state funding  for pregnancy  termination.                                                               
He explained  that the  hearing "is meant  to put  information on                                                               
the record related to one  question, that question is, should the                                                               
state  use  public  money,  tax  dollars,  to  pay  for  elective                                                               
abortions, or  should it  not."   He stated that  this was  not a                                                               
debate  "whether abortion  is good  or  bad.   That's an  ongoing                                                               
discussion  that I  am sure  we have  all been  part of  and will                                                               
continue."   He suggested that  a definitive statement  of policy                                                               
could be  made.  He stated  that the purpose of  the presentation                                                               
was purely informational.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:11:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER, referring  to the  letter from  the Department  of                                                               
Health  and  Social  Services  [Included  in  members'  handout],                                                               
reported that  the state had  spent $546,000 on  abortion related                                                               
services during the last [calendar]  year.  He declared that this                                                               
money was spent  despite the declaration in House  Bill 108, page                                                               
23, lines 15 - 20, which he read, as follows:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     no money in this  appropriation [Medicaid services] may                                                                    
     be  expended  for an  abortion  that  is not  mandatory                                                                    
     service under AS 47.07.030(a).   The money appropriated                                                                    
     for  Health and  Social Services  may be  expended only                                                                    
     for  mandatory services  under Title  19 of  the Social                                                                    
     Security Act  and for optional services  offered by the                                                                    
     state under  the plan for  medical assistance  that has                                                                    
     been  approved by  the U.S.  Department  of Health  and                                                                    
     Human Services.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER asked for Commissioner  Streur [Department of Health                                                               
and Social Services  (DHSS)] to explain why this  money was spent                                                               
despite the intent language written in House Bill 108.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:12:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER  explained that  he had researched  back to  1971 on                                                               
the  question of  public  money  being spent  for  abortion.   He                                                               
expressed his  desire to review  the topic "with thought  and not                                                               
debate passion and confusion" in  order to get the information on                                                               
the  record so  the  legislature  could address  the  issue.   He                                                               
offered his belief  that there were conflicting  decrees from the                                                               
Alaska Supreme Court and the Alaska State Legislature.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:14:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM  STREUR,   Commissioner,  Office  of   the  Commissioner,                                                               
Department  of Health  and Social  Services  (DHSS), agreed  that                                                               
this was  an important issue,  and as  he wanted to  be perfectly                                                               
clear, he  read from a  prepared statement  [original punctuation                                                               
included]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     There may  not be an  issue facing the  Department that                                                                    
     has  drawn more  of my  attention than  this particular                                                                    
     one.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The federal  Hyde Amendment  is a  rider to  the annual                                                                    
     Labor/Health   and   Human   Services   (HHS)/Education                                                                    
     appropriations  bill which  prevents  Medicaid and  any                                                                    
     other  programs under  these  departments from  funding                                                                    
     abortions, except  in limited cases. It  is named after                                                                    
     Rep.  Henry   J.  Hyde  (R-IL)   who,  as   a  freshman                                                                    
     legislator,  first   offered  the   amendment.  Various                                                                    
     amendments  over the  years since  1977 have  clarified                                                                    
     those  limited  cases  to  generally  include  rape  or                                                                    
     incest and  when following  through with  the pregnancy                                                                    
     threatens the life of the pregnant woman.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     In  2001, the  Alaska State  Supreme Court  established                                                                    
     that the  State could not selectively  deny payment for                                                                    
     medically  necessary  care to  Medicaid-eligible  women                                                                    
     because  the   threat  to  their  health   arises  from                                                                    
     pregnancy.    The  court reasoned  that  the  state  is                                                                    
     required  to  use  neutral   criteria  when  it  places                                                                    
     restrictions   on   medical   care,   concluding   that                                                                    
     regulations  that  prohibited   payment  for  medically                                                                    
     necessary abortions  were based  on criteria  that were                                                                    
     unrelated  to Medicaid's  program  purpose of  granting                                                                    
     uniform  and high  quality medical  care  to all  needy                                                                    
     persons  in   the  state.     The   court  specifically                                                                    
     determined  that  the  differential treatment  that  is                                                                    
     created by regulations that  deny payment for medically                                                                    
     necessary   abortions   fails  and   equal   protection                                                                    
     analysis. A Superior Court decision  in 1999 ruled that                                                                    
     7 AAC 43.140  limited when and how the  state could pay                                                                    
     for medically  necessary abortions  and the  court said                                                                    
     the  criteria in  the regulation  was  not neutral  and                                                                    
     therefore violated the Equal  Protection clause.   That                                                                    
     is a quick  snapshot of how we got to  here.  With that                                                                    
     decision, we  are one with  a dozen other  states under                                                                    
     court  order  to  publically fund  medically  necessary                                                                    
     abortions under broader criteria than Hyde.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     So, what  options do we  have to minimize  our exposure                                                                    
     in paying for  elective abortions that do  not meet the                                                                    
     court's criteria of being "medically necessary"?                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     One effort  may be  to impose  a definition  of medical                                                                    
     necessity,   either  specific   to  abortions   or  for                                                                    
     Medicaid services  as a whole.   Under the  old General                                                                    
     Relief Medical (GRM) program,  which paid for abortions                                                                    
     for  two  decades until  the  program  was defunded  in                                                                    
     1998, a therapeutic abortion had  to be "certified by a                                                                    
     physician as  medically necessary to prevent  the death                                                                    
     or  disability  of  the  woman,   or  to  ameliorate  a                                                                    
     condition   harmful   to   the  woman's   physical   or                                                                    
     psychological health."  The  GRM standard was perceived                                                                    
     by many as not materially  restricting access to state-                                                                    
     funded abortions. Some believe  the current system does                                                                    
     not   adequately   ensure   some   Medicaid   services,                                                                    
     including  abortion  services,   are  not  conclusively                                                                    
     supported by strong medical necessity criteria.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     It  has been  suggested  that statute  may  be able  to                                                                    
     define  medical  necessity  and that  any  services  be                                                                    
     measured against that criteria.   While one can place a                                                                    
     definition   of  medical   necessity   in  statute   or                                                                    
     regulation,  it bears  little  weight  as the  ultimate                                                                    
     decision  for the  necessity for  care  rests with  the                                                                    
     physician  and   his  or  her  determination   that  an                                                                    
     abortion  is necessary  due to  rape or  incest or  the                                                                    
     woman was in danger of  death due to physical disorder,                                                                    
     physical injury  or physical illness.   OR, in Alaska's                                                                    
     case;   the   abortion   is  not   elective   and   was                                                                    
     necessitated  because  the   pregnancy  endangered  the                                                                    
     health of the  woman, Medicaid must pay some  or all of                                                                    
     the costs.   The  caution still remains  that we  had a                                                                    
     regulation before and it was challenged and we lost.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     In 2010, the  DOL researched the 13  states under court                                                                    
     order to  fund abortions  beyond the  reasons permitted                                                                    
     under  Hyde (rape,  incest  or  life endangerment)  and                                                                    
     those  state definitions  of  "medically necessary"  in                                                                    
     the  context of  Medicaid  funded  abortions and  other                                                                    
     health care  services.  The  research did not  show any                                                                    
     states that apply a narrower  or stricter definition of                                                                    
     "medically necessary"  to Medicaid funded  abortions in                                                                    
     comparison to  other Medicaid  funded services.  In the                                                                    
     case of six states the  definitions are quite broad and                                                                    
     provide  physicians with  wide  latitude  to use  their                                                                    
     professional judgment on the necessity.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska  Medicaid may  have some  opportunity to  define                                                                    
     medical necessity  or to require physicians  to certify                                                                    
     that  an abortion  is medically  necessary  and not  an                                                                    
     elective  procedure.   We  have  played  with both  and                                                                    
     continue to  attempt to seize  what might have  been an                                                                    
     opportunity afforded by the Supreme Court to do so.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     We have designed  and are finalizing the  efficacy of a                                                                    
     medical  certification   completed  and  signed   by  a                                                                    
     physician performing  an abortion for which  federal or                                                                    
     state funding is requested.   That signed certification                                                                    
     must  affirm the  abortion  is the  result  or rape  or                                                                    
     incest or condition that places  the woman in danger of                                                                    
     death of death unless an  abortion is performed, OR, in                                                                    
     the  case  of  request  for  state  funding  only,  the                                                                    
     abortion is  performed due to  the health of  the woman                                                                    
     being endangered by the pregnancy.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     This  issue is  both perplexing  and challenging  as we                                                                    
     move forward  with Medicaid  funded healthcare  and the                                                                    
     proposed Medicaid expansion.   To address this issue we                                                                    
     need to  enlist the  assistance of our  tribal partners                                                                    
     and  the  medical  community,  as  well  as  the  State                                                                    
     Legislature.    I am  bound  under  the Alaska  Supreme                                                                    
     Court's  Constitutional   determination  that   I  must                                                                    
     protect  a  woman's  right  to  a  medically  necessary                                                                    
     abortion and  ask for your  indulgence to not  place us                                                                    
     in an, even more  difficult situation, by legislating a                                                                    
     prohibition to not provide that access.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Thank you  for your  consideration and allowing  me the                                                                    
     time to discuss  this issue.  I am happy  to answer any                                                                    
     questions you may have or  discuss further my testimony                                                                    
     today.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:23:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER, in reference to the aforementioned letter from                                                                    
DHSS, asked for a definition of abortion related services, and                                                                  
asked if this included "pro-life counseling."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:24:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR,  in response, explained that  the presenting                                                               
symptom  dictated  whether  a  billing  was  for  services  under                                                               
abortion  related   counseling.    He  affirmed   that  "pro-life                                                               
counseling" could also be included.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:24:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BOB  LYNN, Alaska State Legislature,  asked if the                                                               
"abortionist"  decided  what  was  medically  necessary,  and  he                                                               
questioned whether this would be a conflict of interest.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR,  pointing  out  that  the  provider  was  a                                                               
physician, confirmed  that the physician did  make this decision.                                                               
He offered  his belief that  the Hippocratic Oath  would preclude                                                               
the relatively  small fee  that the  physician would  receive for                                                               
performing an abortion.  He declared his faith in mankind.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:26:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT confirmed  that  this  was "an  emotional                                                               
issue to  both men and women,  it's a tough issue  to talk about,                                                               
it's  a tough  issue to  legislate."   She asked  if the  medical                                                               
certification that  Commissioner Streur  had referenced  would be                                                               
issued  by  the  State  of  Alaska and  would  certify  that  the                                                               
abortion had been  done for reasons under  the federal definition                                                               
of medically  necessary abortions.   She  asked what  the penalty                                                               
was  for   not  completing  the  medical   certification  or  for                                                               
perjuring the medical  certification.  She asked how  it would be                                                               
determined that either of these had occurred.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:27:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR,   in  response,  said  that   the  proposed                                                               
certification form was still going  through numerous reviews.  He                                                               
reported that it  would contain two certification  boxes, one box                                                               
for   the  aforementioned   Hyde   Amendment,   and  the   second                                                               
certification box for  state funding only; and,  it would declare                                                               
that the services were medically  necessary for the psychological                                                               
or  physical  health  of  the  mother.   He  clarified  that  the                                                               
physician would choose which box  to check, and the certification                                                               
was  subject  to  review.     He  pointed  out  that,  without  a                                                               
certification, there would not be any payment.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:28:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT asked for  the definition of psychological                                                               
damage to the mother.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR replied  that this  related to  a medication                                                               
regimen whereby the  medication could cause harm to  the fetus or                                                               
the mother.   He  offered to  research and  to provide  a broader                                                               
definition.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:29:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT  asked if the psychological  component was                                                               
only   considered  when   the  mother   was  on   medication  for                                                               
psychological issues.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR   replied  that   he  would   research  that                                                               
question.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:29:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON asked what  would happen if the legislature                                                               
decided not to provide funding.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR confirmed  that this  "was the  horns of  my                                                               
dilemma," as he  was under orders of the supreme  court to ensure                                                               
that the  services were  not only  provided, but  also paid.   He                                                               
relayed that the issue of payment  was an annual problem when the                                                               
funding  was   eliminated  from   the  department  budget.     He                                                               
established that  "it's a  tough and thorny  issue, and  it's the                                                               
issue that I ask that I not be put into, but I'm there."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON  asked what  action the  commissioner chose                                                               
when he was put into this dilemma.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR confirmed that he  would continue to make the                                                               
services available  and to pay  for them, although he  would also                                                               
continue his  attempt to  clarify what  was a  medical necessity.                                                               
He affirmed that  he worked with the provider  community to "move                                                               
toward  a  level  of  comfort  that the  abortions  that  we  are                                                               
performing are indeed medically necessary."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:31:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON  asked if  there was a  distinction between                                                               
abortion related and abortion preventive services.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR stipulated that  abortion services needed "to                                                               
help the  pregnant female  come to a  decision about  the choices                                                               
before  them."   He emphasized  that  women were  given the  best                                                               
advice possible by  ensuring that the best  advice was available.                                                               
He stated  that he  did not make  a distinction  between abortion                                                               
related and abortion preventive services.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON  offered his belief  that it was  more than                                                               
semantics.   He opined that  people live up to  expectations, and                                                               
he  suggested   changing  the   phrase  to   abortion  preventive                                                               
services,  which the  state would  pay.   He  declared that  this                                                               
would engender expectation for abortion preventive services.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:34:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER,  declaring  this  to  be  an  "unholy  stalemate,"                                                               
recounted that six commissioners over  the past 10 years had this                                                               
same dilemma.  He asked if  there were any current regulations to                                                               
better serve  the legislative purpose  as outlined in  the intent                                                               
language of the bill.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR,  directing attention  to the  physician form                                                               
certifying  medical necessity,  endorsed  that this  would be  in                                                               
regulation.    He  opined  that any  attempt  to  define  medical                                                               
necessity  was  "a  mighty  thorny  road  to  go  down,"  and  he                                                               
questioned   whether   this   was  mandating,   legislating,   or                                                               
regulating  the  practice of  medicine.    He declared  that  his                                                               
professional experience  in health care had  determined that this                                                               
was not  a good  course of  action.   He suggested  a partnership                                                               
with the  physician community for  adherence to the rules  of the                                                               
Hyde Amendment and the supreme court.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:36:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER offered  his  belief that  most  other states  were                                                               
closer to  the CMS (Centers  for Medicare and  Medicaid Services)                                                               
guidelines on abortion, which he read:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     If  the pregnancy  is a  result of  an act  of rape  or                                                                    
     incest,  or ...  if  a woman  suffers  from a  physical                                                                    
     disorder,  a  physical  injury,  or  physical  illness,                                                                    
     including a life  endangering physical condition caused                                                                    
     or arising  from the pregnancy  itself, that  would, as                                                                    
     certified by a physician, place  the woman in danger of                                                                    
     death unless an abortion is performed.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER  shared that this CMS  standard went on to  list the                                                               
specific examples.   He shared  a story of a  doctor's definition                                                               
for  medically  necessary,  which  was  "medically  necessary  is                                                               
necessary if I say  so.  I decide if an  abortion is necessary or                                                               
not  based on  what the  patient wants."   He  opined that  these                                                               
different standards necessitated exploration  for a tightening of                                                               
the  definition  "without stepping  unduly  on  the toes  of  the                                                               
physicians."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:39:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK  suggested a  tightening of the  language, so                                                               
that "people of both sides of  the argument would have peace with                                                               
it."   He offered  a second suggestion,  that by  adding abortion                                                               
services to  Pick, Click and  Give, "this whole problem  would go                                                               
away."  He  likened the violation of physical rape  to an ethical                                                               
and  moral  violation "of  having  to  participate in  our  state                                                               
funding abortions."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:42:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER  asked if the  category "abortion  related services"                                                               
included transportation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR said that it did not.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:42:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT  asked for  the locations in  Alaska where                                                               
abortions were performed.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR  replied that the majority  were performed in                                                               
the Anchorage  area, with a  smaller number in Fairbanks  and, he                                                               
added, "quite a few in Seattle."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:43:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MILLETT   asked   for   a   cost   estimate   of                                                               
transportation  to a  clinic performing  state funded  abortions.                                                               
She asked if the State of Alaska paid for this transportation.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR   explained  that  some  cases   involved  a                                                               
Medicaid  recipient   arranging  their  own   transportation  and                                                               
arriving at the  office of a physician, and  other cases included                                                               
transportation  paid by  state funding.   He  declared that  each                                                               
case  of  abortion related  services  was  reviewed in  order  to                                                               
determine   whether  transportation   for  that   individual  had                                                               
occurred  during that  same time  period.   He  affirmed that  he                                                               
would research the costs.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MILLETT   asked   when  the   proposed   medical                                                               
certification would be  available for public comment.   She asked                                                               
if the certification would be  mandatory for participation by all                                                               
physicians, was there  an "opt out," or was it  only required for                                                               
state funding.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR confirmed that  the medical certification was                                                               
only required for state payment through Medicaid.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT asked  if abortions  provided in  Seattle                                                               
would require medical certification.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR explained that  any abortion paid by Medicaid                                                               
would require medical certification for payment.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:46:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK  clarified that  abortion was legal  but that                                                               
the question  was whether the State  of Alaska would pay  for the                                                               
procedure.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:47:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR  emphasized that  there was  not a  choice of                                                               
payment  by the  State  of Alaska.   He  stated  that the  Alaska                                                               
Supreme Court had established that  the State of Alaska could not                                                               
"selectively  deny  payment for  medically  necessary  care to  a                                                               
Medicaid-eligible recipient  because the  threat to  their health                                                               
arises from pregnancy."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   DICK  offered   his   belief   that  there   was                                                               
"tremendous  wiggle   room"  in  the  definition   for  medically                                                               
necessary, and  he suggested  that the  committee tighten  up the                                                               
definition.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:48:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER  offered his  belief that  the Alaska  Supreme Court                                                               
justices had  endorsed an  opportunity for  the definition  of an                                                               
"elective abortion."   He declared  that the definition  would be                                                               
tested if the  legislature "is to press on with  trying to define                                                               
this once and  for all."  He reiterated that  this hearing was to                                                               
gather information for whether the  state should pay for elective                                                               
abortions.   He requested that  all testifiers be  respectful and                                                               
precise.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:49:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN  LEWIS,   Educational  Director,  Alaska  Right   to  Life,                                                               
declared that she  spoke for herself and others  who were morally                                                               
opposed to tax payer funding  for elective abortions.  She opined                                                               
that 50  percent of the  population "considered themselves  to be                                                               
pro-life."   She  expressed  her support  for  the suggestion  by                                                               
Representative Dick  to "let those  who embrace abortion  pay for                                                               
those who want one."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:51:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CANDY  MILLER  offered  her belief  that  privatization  was  the                                                               
solution, and that  "no government should be  paying for abortion                                                               
or pregnancy, adoption,  all of those."  She suggested  a stop to                                                               
the  enablement by  the  government,  that private  organizations                                                               
could  facilitate adoptions.   She  asked if  the state  paid for                                                               
contraceptives and  abortions for foster children;  and, how much                                                               
federal money was paid for abortions.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MILLETT asked  if there was funding  for the state                                                               
program for adoption.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR  replied  that   the  Office  of  Children's                                                               
Services offered subsidies to encourage adoptions.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:55:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEBBIE  JOSLIN, President,  Eagle Forum  Alaska, stated  that she                                                               
represented  herself, and  directing  attention  to the  inherent                                                               
rights section of  the Alaska State Constitution,  she said "that                                                               
all  persons have  a  natural  right to  life,  liberty, and  the                                                               
pursuit of  happiness."  She  opined that assistance in  ending a                                                               
life was not  living up to the constitution.   She said she would                                                               
direct  her  comments  to  "medically  necessary."    She  shared                                                               
stories of her  own abortion and of her diagnosis  for trisomy 13                                                               
during a  subsequent pregnancy.   She  disagreed with  payment of                                                               
abortions for  "mental illness" and  suggested that  adoption was                                                               
an  alternative.    She  offered  her  belief  that  payment  for                                                               
"medically  necessary" abortions  was  a cover.    She urged  the                                                               
committee  to  stop  government   payment  for  abortions.    She                                                               
referred to Planned Parenthood as  "a business, it is an abortion                                                               
business.  It  is not about helping women or  healing women, it's                                                               
a business and they make a good  deal of money."  She opined that                                                               
it was wrong  for Planned Parenthood to receive  state or federal                                                               
funding for abortions.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:03:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLOVER  SIMON,   Planned  Parenthood  of  the   Great  Northwest,                                                               
endorsed that  Alaskans valued independence and  privacy, and she                                                               
opined  that "many  Alaskans believe  that the  government should                                                               
not  interfere in  a decision  between a  woman, her  doctor, her                                                               
family, and  her faith  when she's  deciding what  to do  with an                                                               
unintended pregnancy."   She declared this to be a  value for the                                                               
daily  operation of  Planned Parenthood.   She  relayed that  the                                                               
Alaska Supreme Court had already  decided that pregnancy care and                                                               
other  medically necessary  procedures,  including abortion  when                                                               
medically necessary, would  be covered by Medicaid.   She offered                                                               
her belief  that any  attempt to  legislate what  was or  was not                                                               
medically  necessary  was  "a  grey  and  sticky  ground."    She                                                               
expressed  her agreement  with Ms.  Joslin that  a definition  of                                                               
medically necessary  could vary  between women,  reiterating that                                                               
it was a decision for each individual woman and her doctor.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:04:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MILLETT  asked   for   the  Planned   Parenthood                                                               
definition for when a life begins.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIMON replied that Planned  Parenthood did not "take a stance                                                               
on when  life begins.   We leave that  decision up to  the woman,                                                               
and her physician, and her family,  and her faith."  She declared                                                               
that  Planned  Parenthood  was  not  interested  in  making  that                                                               
decision for women, as it was a personal decision.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:05:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK offered  his  belief that  pregnancy was  an                                                               
issue for both a man and a woman.  He declared:                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     If a woman chooses to carry  the child, then the man is                                                                    
     totally  responsible for  the child;  yet if  the woman                                                                    
     chooses not  to carry the  child, all of a  sudden it's                                                                    
     her  individual personal  choice  as  to whether  she's                                                                    
     gonna carry  that child or  not.  So, there's  a double                                                                    
     standard there that really troubles  me.  I don't think                                                                    
     it's really her pregnancy  because it's their pregnancy                                                                    
     and,  if anything,  that decision  to have  an abortion                                                                    
     should be made  not only by the woman, but  the man who                                                                    
     was  also involved  and  who also  will  live with  the                                                                    
     decision whether  that child  should enter life  or not                                                                    
     be able to enter life.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:06:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SIMON  confirmed  that   Planned  Parenthood  counseled  for                                                               
everyone  involved  in the  pregnancy  to  be included  with  the                                                               
decision  making.     She   summarized  the   Planned  Parenthood                                                               
education  programs,   which  included  discussions   of  healthy                                                               
relationships  and the  importance of  communication about  birth                                                               
control and unintended pregnancy in sexual relationships.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK declared  that double  standards had  always                                                               
bothered  him, and  "if  I  thought that  a  man's signature  was                                                               
required in  order for a  woman to have  an abortion, I'd  have a                                                               
little more peace about it."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER asked  if there  was any  conflict of  interest for                                                               
Planned  Parenthood with  any  profit to  be  made from  abortion                                                               
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:08:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIMON emphasized that Planned  Parenthood had no "interest in                                                               
profiting  off of  abortion services."   She  disclosed that  the                                                               
revenue versus the cost as  a provider of prevention services was                                                               
not profit generating.   She stated:  "we're  a medical provider.                                                               
We  provide  lots  of  services,  most  of  them  are  prevention                                                               
services."  She offered her belief  that there was not a conflict                                                               
of interest.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:09:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MILLETT asked  for the  profit margin  at Planned                                                               
Parenthood.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIMON replied that Planned  Parenthood of the Great Northwest                                                               
did not make a profit for the last year.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:09:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SIMON,  in response to  Representative Lynn, stated  that the                                                               
definition for a medically necessary  area should be made between                                                               
a patient and  a physician, not by the legislature.   In response                                                               
to a second question from  Representative Lynn, she affirmed that                                                               
"doctors  have   different  opinions  about  what   is  or  isn't                                                               
medically necessary,  and that's  why it's really  important that                                                               
the patient is involved in that decision making process."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:11:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ILONA FARR, MD, declared that she  was a pro-life physician.  She                                                               
expressed her  belief that most abortions  are elective, "because                                                               
people  don't want  the  consequences of  what  their action  is,                                                               
essentially."  She reported her  "difficulty as a physician, as a                                                               
person in  the State  of Alaska,  having my  tax dollars  pay for                                                               
abortion."    She   declared  the  importance  to   each  of  the                                                               
following:    parental  involvement   while  women  were  minors,                                                               
involvement  of the  father of  the child,  and ultra  sounds for                                                               
full  knowledge.   She opined  that  the State  of Alaska  should                                                               
"stay out of this and not to fund abortions."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER   asked  if  the   legislature  should   write  the                                                               
definition  for medically  necessary,  even  without any  medical                                                               
background.   He  asked Dr.  Farr if  she would  help write  this                                                               
definition.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR. FARR  offered her belief  that guidelines were  necessary for                                                               
physician discretion,  and she  offered her  support and  that of                                                               
other  physician  colleagues,  some  of  whom  provided  abortion                                                               
services,  in  order  to  "get the  language  correct  with  this                                                               
legislation."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:16:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARGARET  MULLINS said  that this  is  "basic to  right to  life,                                                               
which I  know is  not the  issue here."   She offered  a personal                                                               
story about the right to life.   She asked to clarify whether 600                                                               
abortions had been paid by Medicaid in Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER replied  that the  $546,000 had  been spent  on 901                                                               
individuals  for  abortion  related  services.   He  offered  his                                                               
belief that at  least 600 abortions had been paid  by Medicaid in                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MULLINS reflected  on her personal experiences  with good and                                                               
evil, and  power.  She  discussed definitions for  adulthood, and                                                               
the  development of  the brain.   She  declared that  funding for                                                               
abortions  "makes a  nation  an abomination"  and  she urged  the                                                               
legislature not to fund "abortions with tax payer's dollars."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:23:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTINE KURKA, Chair, Fair Committee,  Alaska Right to Life, 40                                                               
Days  For  Life, reflected  that  a  duty  of government  was  to                                                               
protect life,  and it was not  an appropriate use of  state funds                                                               
for abortion  services.   She affirmed that  it was  different in                                                               
the event  that it was medically  necessary to save a  life.  She                                                               
offered her belief  that 51 percent of Americans  were opposed to                                                               
public funding of  abortions.  She shared a story  of a woman who                                                               
had  an   abortion.    She   opined  that  a   consideration  for                                                               
legislation needed to be "in favor of life."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:28:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  DUNLEAVY offered  his belief  that  a primary  role of  the                                                               
state should be security of  its citizens, and that state dollars                                                               
should  not be  used "for  the termination  of its  citizens, the                                                               
termination of life of its citizens."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:29:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER  MEYER shared  that she  had worked  in health  care for                                                               
more  than a  decade  and declared  "abortion  is something  that                                                               
nobody likes  it.   Nobody wants  to be put  in a  position where                                                               
that has to  be a decision that's made, from  the patient side or                                                               
from the care  provider side."  She suggested  that the committee                                                               
work  harder on  prevention, health  education, information,  and                                                               
easier access  for contraception.   She offered her  belief, that                                                               
although  it  would  not  solve  everything,  it  would  "make  a                                                               
significant dent in the abortion  rates."  Reflecting on the high                                                               
teen birth  rate statistics  in the United  States as  opposed to                                                               
many  other developed  countries, she  suggested a  study on  how                                                               
other countries had  kept a low teen birth rate.   She reiterated                                                               
the need for an investment in prevention.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:31:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIRIAM  LANDAU  offered  her  belief  that  our  culture  allowed                                                               
conversation  about  "how  terrible  abortion is,"  but  made  it                                                               
difficult  to discuss  that  "women  are in  control  of our  own                                                               
destiny."   She opined that  the decision for abortion  should be                                                               
made  by a  woman,  her doctor,  her faith,  her  family and  her                                                               
partner.  She specified that  this discussion should be about low                                                               
income  Alaskan women  who did  not have  access to  health care.                                                               
She suggested that,  instead of a discussion  for limiting access                                                               
to  a legal  medical  procedure, there  should  be discussion  to                                                               
increase funding  for family planning  to people with  incomes up                                                               
to 175 percent of the federal  poverty level.  She encouraged the                                                               
committee to consider  family planning as the best  way to reduce                                                               
unplanned pregnancies.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:34:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MATT  JOHNSON,   Executive  Director,   Alaska  Right   to  Life,                                                               
directing his  questions to Commissioner  Streur, asked  how many                                                               
abortions were  paid through  Denali Kid  Care or  Medicaid which                                                               
were under  the parameters  of the  Hyde Amendment  exceptions of                                                               
"rape, incest, and  the life of the mother."   He also asked what                                                               
the  Department  of  Health   and  Social  Services  deliberative                                                               
process was to determine whether  to follow the directives of the                                                               
legislature if there was a conflict with the judiciary.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:36:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR,   in  response   to  Mr.   Johnson's  first                                                               
question, stated that no abortions  were claimed "under Hyde last                                                               
year."   He replied that he  would have to research  the previous                                                               
years for that information.   In response to the second question,                                                               
he stated that  he worked for the executive branch,  and his boss                                                               
was the governor.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:36:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KELLER  asked  Mr.  Johnson why  he  questioned  the  Hyde                                                               
Amendment payment.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON replied  that it was his understanding  that the FMAP                                                               
(Federal  Medical  Assistance  Percentage)   would  pay  for  any                                                               
abortions that were not covered  under the parameters of the Hyde                                                               
Amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:37:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR explained that FMAP  would pay for 50 percent                                                               
of  any abortions  performed  under the  parameters  of the  Hyde                                                               
Amendment.  He  noted that any abortions  performed outside those                                                               
parameters, were paid with 100 percent of general funds.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:38:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  asked to receive  the information for the  number of                                                               
abortions which  had been  paid for under  the parameters  of the                                                               
Hyde  Amendment.    Expressing  his agreement  with  the  earlier                                                               
analysis  by  Representative Dick,  he  opined  that the  medical                                                               
necessity language was amorphous,  "basically whatever the health                                                               
care  provider or  the mother  decides it  is."   He offered  his                                                               
belief that the legislature should better define the language.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER STREUR,  in response to  Mr. Johnson, said  that the                                                               
supreme  court had  determined that  abortion  was included  with                                                               
pregnancy  related services,  and  that the  legislature had  the                                                               
option to not cover pregnancy related services.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:40:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON stated:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     In Planned Parenthood One, the  court argued that it is                                                                    
     a violation  of equal  protection to pay  for pre-natal                                                                    
     services  and not  pay for  abortion services  and they                                                                    
     argued  it  upon an  argument  that  they called  equal                                                                    
     footing.   I just  want to point  out, for  the record,                                                                    
     that  the court  artificially  divided  women into  two                                                                    
     classes  that,  I  believe,  were  not  necessary.    I                                                                    
     believe it's  a piece  of sophistry.   The  two classes                                                                    
     were those who  choose to have abortions  and those who                                                                    
     chose to  carry their  child to term.   I  would submit                                                                    
     that that is  the class of two choices, not  a class of                                                                    
     two kinds  of persons.   On  its face,  it seems  to me                                                                    
     like  it's preposterous  to claim  that there's  even a                                                                    
     remote equivalent  between covering a service,  in this                                                                    
     case  pre-natal care,  that  covers medical  procedures                                                                    
     for  all women  potentially, and  all women  definitely                                                                    
     who  go through  a  natural birthing  process, and  one                                                                    
     that intrudes upon and pre-empts nature.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHNSON  assessed that  any legislative  relevance was  to be                                                               
determined by the  legislature.  He offered his  opinion that the                                                               
logic of the decision by  the supreme court, "inexorably leads us                                                               
back to the first  question I asked ... it seems  to me the logic                                                               
of the courts,  if it were carried to its  conclusion, would lead                                                               
us to  the place where  the state  would perforce be  required to                                                               
pay  for any  medical choice  any patient  wanted to  make."   He                                                               
voiced his objection for "the  activism of the Alaska State court                                                               
system."  He declared that  this was "fundamentally undemocratic.                                                               
The courts have  moved to circumvent the will  of the electorate,                                                               
as expressed in the legislature  and in the executive branch, and                                                               
in addition to the federal laws  that are in place."  He declared                                                               
a desire to register his protest.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:43:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK conveyed:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Just  for  the  record,   the  fact  that  a  committee                                                                    
     member's eyes  are closed may mean  that that committee                                                                    
     member is  napping, but  it also  might mean  that that                                                                    
     committee member is deeply contemplative.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER asked  Representative Dick if the  camera had caught                                                               
him sleeping.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:44:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTOPHER KURKA,  Chair, Political  Committee, Alaska  Right to                                                               
Life, declaring  that he was  speaking for himself,  reminded the                                                               
House  Health   and  Social   Services  Standing   Committee  and                                                               
Commissioner  Streur  that "we  have  a  state constitution,  and                                                               
every member  of the  legislature, including  the courts  and the                                                               
governor, have  an oath  to uphold that  document."   He directed                                                               
attention to  Article 9, Section 13,  [Alaska State Constitution]                                                               
and read:  "no money shall  be withdrawn from the treasury except                                                               
in  accordance  with   the  appropriations  made  by   law.    No                                                               
obligation for the  payment of money shall be  incurred except as                                                               
authorized  by law.   Unobligated  appropriations outstanding  at                                                               
the end  of the period of  time specified by law  shall be void."                                                               
He  expressed that  the legislature  and the  governor should  be                                                               
more concerned  that the  courts have  usurped the  delegation of                                                               
power.  He stated:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The courts,  as far  as I  can tell,  have no  place in                                                                    
     deciding what  we do and do  not spend money on.   That                                                                    
     is  the   prerogative  of   the  legislature   and  the                                                                    
     governor.   The  court  doesn't make  law; they  merely                                                                    
     interpret law that  is written by the  legislature.  If                                                                    
     the  legislature  decides  it  does not  want  to  fund                                                                    
     abortions, it  is not the  prerogative of the  court to                                                                    
     tell the  legislature well we think  that's a violation                                                                    
     of whatever  contrivance they want  to come up  with at                                                                    
     the time.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KURKA  offered his belief  that "if we as  a people and  as a                                                               
legislature and the governor think that  it is entirely up to the                                                               
court to interpret  everything that the constitution  has to say,                                                               
then the other  branches of the government  become meaningless in                                                               
their actual authority."  He  expressed that "there are no checks                                                               
and  balances under  that system."   He  further prescribed  that                                                               
"each person who has an oath  to uphold the constitution has then                                                               
some   semblance  of   responsibility  to   interpret  that   for                                                               
themselves using  plain English  of the  constitution.   It's not                                                               
rocket science, and it's pretty  clear to me that the legislature                                                               
is the one who control the purse strings."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:47:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KELLER, in response, acknowledged:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     That's one  that personally outrages  me.  To  me, it's                                                                    
     very   clear  that   it's   the   legislative  job   to                                                                    
     appropriate and when we have  a supreme court case that                                                                    
     says we  will appropriate,  especially in light  of the                                                                    
     fact  that we  keep  saying  no you  won't,  on a  very                                                                    
     unlegal level,  that the whole  big picture  just seems                                                                    
     like  it  is  a  fundamental  question  that  is  being                                                                    
     challenged  in   this  whole  process.     We   have  a                                                                    
     constitution  that's very  different.    We've got  the                                                                    
     privacy and we've  got the equal access  issues that we                                                                    
     have  case law  around,  and we're  looking  for a  way                                                                    
     forward to  challenge it,  and I'm  not sure  what that                                                                    
     will be, but I got some ideas.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:47:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  STREUR emphasized  that he  had taken  an oath  "to                                                               
defend and uphold  the Constitution of the  United States against                                                               
all  enemies foreign  and domestic"  although  there were  things                                                               
with which he did not always agree.   He shared that he had taken                                                               
a  similar oath  "to support  the people  of the  great State  of                                                               
Alaska."  He offered his belief  that he took that role "fully as                                                               
conscientiously"  as the  oath he  had taken  to uphold  the U.S.                                                               
Constitution.  He  affirmed that this was  a difficult situation,                                                               
and he requested that everyone work  together for a solution.  He                                                               
declared "I  do believe in  providing the  best care that  we can                                                               
for the people  of the great State of Alaska  and I will continue                                                               
to do that as long as you let me."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:49:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Health  and  Social  Services   Standing  Committee  meeting  was                                                               
adjourned at 4:49 p.m.                                                                                                          

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